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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  November 30, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm EST

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that's -- that's okay. >> anne, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and betsy and beth, thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> that's all for us tonight. " ac 360" starts now. >> good evening, it's 10:00 p.m. on the east coast. we begin keeping them honest, herman cain and ginger white, the woman who said she had a 13-year affair, both speaking out, he's denying the affair, she's recalling details of it and saying he's not fit to be president. someone's not telling the truth. wherever the truth may be, however, herman cain is in full damage control mode and could drop out of the race. cnn's jim acosta caught up with the candidate in dayton, ohio. >> reporter: mr. cain, mr. cain, jim acosta with cnn. are you vowing to stay in the race? >> we are reassessing and re-evaluating. >> reporter: are you staying in the race. >> we're re-evaluating and reassessing. >> reporter: how soon will you
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have a -- >> in the next several days. >> cain appeared on fox news. we should point out he routinely refuses to come on this program. somehow de he did find time to down with fox's neil cavuto. >> on ginger white, why would she say -- she's known you 13 years, and you say nonam more russ relationship, why would she say, out of the blue, he's not fit to be president? >> neil, i have no idea unless the people who i believe are putting her up to this maybe that was one of the lines that she was supposed to use. i have no idea. >> herman cain saying he believes ginger white was put up to it. when asked who put her up to it, take a look. >> we have no idea who it is, but i just happen to know that the reason that i was trying to
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help her as a friend financially because she was in some deep financial problems about to not even be able to pay her rent. so i don't know who's behind it, but at this point, but we are going to try to figure out as much as we can because this is a direct character assassination. >> so he can't say who's pressuring ginger white to bad-mouth him if in fact that's what she's doing but he has a theory of the string of allegations against him. >> you're the only one that seems to gather or collect, again, accurate or no, these type of charges, whether it's harassment, wlihether it's womanizing, inappropriate relationships. it might not be anything, like you say, but they tend to pile up around you, why is that? >> well, neil, here again i don't have an answer as to why that is the case. but i can only conjecture that maybe i am the democrats' worst
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nightmare if i win the nomination, and as long as i was still low in the polls relative to the republican nomination, this stuff didn't come out. it was only after i got in the top tier and lo and behold there it came. >> herman cain, tonight. again we invited him on this program, invitation remains open. he's always welcome. his accuser, meantime, also yet to present evidence to back up her claims of a 13-year affair, and not just a longstanding platonic relationship as herman cain is claiming. today on good morning america she said she didn't save notes or receipts during the alleged affair because she never planned to go public. white did describe a trip they took together. >> it was a very casual affair that herman flew me to -- on several trips. i went on self-trips with herman. we did one particular trip was the mike tyson/holyfield fight in las vegas, you know? i can't make this stuff up.
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>> well that remains to be seen because, as we mentioned, she's offered no hard evidence to support that or her other claims. the only verifiable fact is how deeply troubled the cain campaign seem to be. joining me now is ari fleischer, democratic strategist, cornell belcher. ari is the cain campaign to the point where it could do some damage to your party? >> oh, no. to the party? did bill clinton's affairs to damage to the democrat party? these things become individual damage. but the broader point here, anderson, and i say this as somebody who has been a fan of herman cain and who liked him by the same time i've been saying for months herman cain is not ready for the oval office. that's the more fundamental issue. none of us know what the truth of the he said, she said that is piling up is. herman cain on policy is not prepared to be the president of the united states.
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i've been saying that for months. so many ways this doesn't matter except where will the cain votes go if he does drop out. that matters a lot. >> cornell, do you believe he's doing damage to the other republicans in the race? >> i mean, i'll say a couple of things. one is, the whole idea that nothing was going on, it seems to be -- it's a stretch. every guy in america knows if you're texting and calling a woman at 4:00 in the morning, that's not about finances, that's a booty call. so, he's not passing the credibility -- >> stop using tough political terms. >> the other thing is, you know, push back on my friend ari a little bit here. what the bill clinton monica lewinsky scandal did a lot of damage to the democratic brand. i don't give michael steele a lot of credit for anything but michael steele is right on this one. all of the attention on herman cain is taking away from what the republicans want to be talking and and who the top two candidates because right now on anderson cooper's show at top of
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the hour we're talking about herman cain and that cannot help the republican party. >> does it hurt one candidate more or does it help any of the republican candidates, cornell, do you think? >> i do think in -- look, i think -- in an interesting way, maybe irony's not the word for this, but newt gingrich is benefitting from a man having an affair here. absolutely. because look, even at 17%, 16% support, which herman cain dropped down to, he's got a base of the anti-mitt romney supporters and if newt gingrich can support of begin to consolidate the anti-mitt romney base of voters out there it becomes a real problem. that's why you see mitt beginning to sort of pivot and turn his attacks frontally on newt gingrich in a way that he did not attack perry or bachmann or cain early on when they rose in the polls. >> do you agree with that? that cnn poll did seem to indicate that newt gingrich benefits the most from cain supporter. >> well, that's right, anderson. that's frankly to me the only issue that matters now.
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and if herman cain stays in the race, that's good news for mitt romney. mitt romney, if he's going to do well in iowa, he needs a multiple field that divides so he can conquer it. the fewer opponents mitt romney has in iowa, the harder it will be for him to have any kind of plurality of a decent size showing that gives him a boost coming out of eyee. he needs herman cain to stay in the race. if herman cain were to drop out the fewer opponents for mitt romney, that's the real play here, that's what's at stake politically, speaking. >> cornell, how significant is it that romney's come out in the past day or so slamming gingrich? >> i think, you know, as a pollster, i can smell another pollster's work. look, clearly they've done some research and says that newt is a threat to them in a way that's going to be real to them in a way na perry wasn't. and now they're sort of beginning to contrast with him. i've got a feeling that they're
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not going to end with that. and in the campaign you start throwing out contrast and working with contrast you think is going work until you get the one that works. i've got a feeling on the communication side they'll start with the insider/out sider contrast. when it comes down to pay communication, when they're paying for communication, when paying for ads and paying for under the radar stuff like mail and robocalls, they're going to hit newt gingrich on character and draw a strong character contrast between mitt romney with the picture of his family, faithful family man, versus newt gingrich, and what those conservative voters that ari knows be better than i do, that could be a stronger contrast. >> the stronger play for mitt romney is electability issue. they're willing to accept flaws and candidates in many ways mitt romney is everybody's plan b. nobody really likes him, not enough people really like him to excite the republican party.
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but what excites us is the prospect of defeating barack obama. to the degree that romney is stronger positioned to do that than gingrich, that's going to play a big role in the minds of a lot of republicans as they go to vote. >> ari, do you think he's in a stronger position to beat obama? >> well he is today. he is now and he has been for months. newt's task is to pick up his numbers so people who say i prefer newt to romney but i don't think newt can win. newt's got to start demonstrating he can beat barack obama in head-to-head, especially battle ground states. right now mitt romney has a five to ten-point edge over newt gingrich in electability over obama in many battle ground states. big task for newt to address the shortfall. >> thanks very much. let us flow what you think. we're on facebook, follow us on google plus, twitter. barack obama accused of mixing the business of governor
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earning and campaigning. we'll ask the president's spokesman how he accounts for the travel and why it's business as usual for years. "keeping them honest" tonight. the penn state sex abuse scandal, the first lawsuit now has been filed against jerry sandusky and penn state. the plaintiff is a new accuser, not mention in the grand jury report. details, ahead. how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there.
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keeping them honest now. president obama getting heat for racking frequent flyer mile on air force one. that's the accusation. in a moment, receipt buttal from jay carney. president obama's in new york tonight for a string of campaign fund-raisers off-limits to the general public. before air force one touched down tonight, it took off from wilkes-barre scranton international airport in eastern pennsylvania where mr. obama spoke about the economy and his jobs plan at a local high school. he talked about policy, his jobs plan. but critics say both legs of the trip, new york and scranton, are more about politics than policy. president, they say, has checks out of the white house and stepped on to the campaign trail. here's house speaker boehner who began leveling those charges last month. >> nothing has disappointed me more than what's happened over the last five weeks.
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to watch the president of the united states give up on governing, give up on leading, and spend full time campaigning. >> debatable, but it's whether a trip to push for a jobs plan adds up to a campaign stop, that's the question if it takes place in pennsylvania. what's not debatable is this. president obama has been spending a lot of time on road in states that are crucial in his re-election. >> hello, iowa. hello, cincinnati. it is good to be in orlando. it is great to be back in pittsburgh. it is great to be back in the motor city. it is good to be back in asheville, north carolina. it is great to be here in north carolina. it is great to be in virginia. great to be in the philly area. hello, new hampshire. it is good to be back in scranton. >> that's just a sample. according to the "wall street journal," mrobama's made 56 viss
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to battleground states this year, breaking bush's record of 49 events in 2003 and clinton's 40 in 1995. both sides of course do it. went they're traveling, you're paying. it's up to the white house to decide which events are campaign stops which weren't. according to a report, prepared for democrats on the house committee on government reform, taxpayers foot most of the bill in either case. the report covered presidential and vice presidential travel leading up to the 2002 midterm elections. the findings, 6.5 million in flight expenses, of which political campaigns only reimbursed $198,000. that's 3%. the report went tonight say flight expenses are just a fraction of what it costs and what you pay to put a president on the road. so the bottom line, quote, the president and vice president can legally participate in campaign and fund-raising events for candidates. but when they do so, the taxpayer bears most of the cost. that was a democratic report complaining of republican trips.
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today the tables are turned but in many cases you're picking up the tab. the white house is pushing back hard on this one. >> joining me now, white house spokesman jay carney. no one is saying the president of the united states shouldn't go out and speak to the american people. is it coincidence so many travels take him to the states that are in play for the presidency? >> anderson, i would simply point out that so many of the states that the president travels to are considered in play next year because we live in a country that's closely divided politically, and this president, when he ran for office the first time in 2008, put a lot of states that had previously not been considered to be in play, like virginia and north carolina, indiana, and others, into play and won them. so, what i've said from this podium in the past is that if this president were unable to travel to states considered in play politically, as president of the united states on official
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business, he would have to rule out travel to a great portion of the country and we're not going to do that. every president, republican or democrat, ought to be able to travel around the country to states that are considered blue, red, and purple, to talk about his agenda or her agenda, and that's what this president's doing. >> you can't deny politics does play a role somewhere in the decision of where to go for the president, i mean, in terms of campaigning and decision -- >> i think you have to define politics. depends what you mean by politics. the president made a speech today that's about politics in the sense that when he spoke at the high school in scranton, pennsylvania, he called on congress to do the right thing and pass a payroll tax cut, extension and expansion, for 160 million working americans. now, that's a political thing because we -- this is a political process here. we have both parties in congress, republicans have a point of view about the payroll tax cut, the president has a
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point of view, and he's urging congress to ability. this stems from a "wall street journal" article that -- that misleadingly asserted that president obama has travels more to so-called battleground states than his two predecessors but it included in that total travel to virginia for president obama but not for president george w. bush where every president -- >> more states are at play this time you're saying? >> more states at play. because every president travels to virginia, it's ten minutes from the oval office. >> there are a lot of republicans -- >> i'm saying that president obama could be ahead by 20 points in virginia and he would still go to virginia because it's nearby him and presidents want to get out of washington. virginia's the closest place they can go, and maryland, of course. >> the criticism, being given by republicans now is the president's spending too much time on the road campaigning. tonight he's at three top dollar fund-raisers here in new york, after spending the day in pennsylvania which as you said
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promoting an extension of the payroll tax cut. is the trip to new york being paid for with public funds or is that -- >> everything -- when we -- when this president travels for political events like the campaign events he has in new york, those are paid for appropriately out of dnc or campaign funds. i mean, this -- but the trip he made to januarystscranton, penn prior to new york was an official event. the president has a responsibility to travel around the country to advance his agenda, and is he campaigning? yes, he's campaigning for the american jobs act, to pass a jobs ability job s act to benefit 160 million americans. >> when a trip is for campaign purposes the federal government's only reimbursed for how much a typical commercial airline ticket would cost. it's estimated for the cost of an hour of air force one is $58,000 so the public ends up paying a lot of the bill of trips that are considered
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political. >> anderson, i'm not sure where you're going with this. i mean, by comparison to any other president, this president operates absolutely by the book and according to the rules. he is president 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, when he travels he has to travel with the complement of advisorers, including an national security matters and others that always have to be with him, whether political travel or official travel, and that is part of the reality of being president. but you can be sure that we do this absolutely by the book. >> do those republicans saying that the president's spending too much time in campaign mode you say? >> again, never -- if you take out virginia, which is across the river and every president travels to in abundance, his immediate predecessor traveled more frequently to so-called battleground states than president obama, and i don't remember republicans complaining about that. >> jay carney, appreciate your time. if you have money in the stock market, chances are you might have made some money
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today, the dow soared 500 points. is the gain bad news for global markets? crime and punishment, new developments in the penn state child sex abuse scandal. today a new accuser filed a lawsuit against form ar sis tant football coach jerry sandusky. an interview with sandusky's attorney, coming up. phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. [ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna... how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there.
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business bulletin, a surgeon wall street. the dow ends the day up 490 points, the largest gain this year. the dow, nasdaq, s&p, up more than 4%. the rally happened after the fed announced it's going to work with other central banks including europe and canada to shore up the global economy by making it cheaper for banks to borrow u.s. dollars. christine romans joins us help us explain. why did the fed do this? >> we were seeing dangerous signs it was getting more difficult and expensive for banks to borrow money overnight, dollars. this is how the world does business in dollars and overnight lending is something the lifeblood of the financial systeming a inin and we were se arteries getting clogged it was starting to look like back late in and 2 008 and that was scary. in the absence of any political movement in europe and the u.s.,
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central banks coming with the big guns and saying we're going to keep the money flowing. >> how much is about this what's happening in europe? its all about europe. so many signs of concern among the european banks. i mean, this is such an important moment, dramatic moment, i mean people are saying that the euro zone is unraveling before our eyes. >> right. >> it's the biggest trading zone for the u.s. the united states cannot avoid another very dangerous recession if you see a very big pullback or an implosion of the euro zone. we would not get by unscathed. so they want to keep this afloat. >> and the markets reacted well, which people are happy about, you know, in the short term what about long term investors are? >> that's a really good point. you saw people going crazy today saying wow this is so great. and the big point here is that this is still a defensive move. this is still a central bank saying, we're at the precipe here and we're going to make sure we don't go over the edge. we're still at the edge, though,
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in terms of europe. so that's an important thing to keep in mind here. you've only got ten days or so for the euro zone and leaders there to figure out what they're going to do, how they're going to get 17, basically, 17 extended family members, all sharing the same checking account, as one economist told me. think about that, that's complicated especially went some people are putting more money in the bank account, others are taking out more. >> the process for the euro zone is very difficult. >> you have treaties between different countries to fix and not much time to do it. they've been behind the curve for a long time. and that's what the fed, the central bank, china actually, loosening some of its lending restrictions at the very same time kind of the whole world getting together anderson to say we're going to keep the blood flowing so that there's more time to get this all sorted out. but no one wants to go back to the credit conditions we had in 2008 and that's what the worry but was. >> before the lehman collapse. >> yeah. that was ugly. that meant millions of jobs
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lost, factories closed. it was -- people now are suffering from what happened back then. so the central bank's ben bernanke, ecb, client na, saying we're going to keep the money flowing so we don't face that now, and that's why marks were happy. they said polymakers are would make sure, not politicians, but central bankers will make sure the worst doesn't happen here. >> thank you. more following tonight. a 360 bulletin. >> thanks. police believe ten sets of human remains found along a desolate stretch of a long island beach since last december are linked to one serial killer. we're following that. also a 360 follow, four members of a breakaway amish group charged with hate crimes were arraigned in federal court in youngstown, ohio. according to the tribune chronicle, the judge ordered the men to stay in prison saying they're a danger to the amish community. the men are accused of shaving beards of people who refused to follow their leader. three other defendants will be
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in court friday. 93-year-old evangelist billy graham is hospitalized in asheville, north carolina, for what officials say is, quote, evaluation and treatment of his lungs. also, you to see this. a tough day for santa at a palm beach, florida, plaul. he tried to make a grand entrance by rapelling into the ground. it didn't work. his beard got stuck. kids were down below, he couldn't move. he ended up tearing off his beard and hat, made it to the ground. by the way, as this was happening the announcer was singing christmas carols, doing all that she could. that is the latest, anderson. back to you. "erin burnett outfront" up at 11:00. >> a huge day in the markets today, 500 points, that is huge. the best in 2 1/2 years. why, can it last? we can be at a turning point nor the u.s. economy. plus, jerry sandusky. the first civil das againcase a
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him, a man named john doe, what happened, what jerry sandusky allegedly did to him, as we talk about that case. what candidate rips the cheese off their pizza? what candidate made a choice between angelina jolie and jennifer aniston? what was that choice? >> i'm intrigued. erin, thanks. look forward to it. coming up, the first lawsuit st stemming from the penn state child sex abuse scandal has been filed. accuses jerry sandusky of sexually abusing a boy more than 100 times and threatening to harm him and his family if if he told. fast moving developments in the sex abuse scandal at syracuse university. new details about the taped phone conversation between one of bernie fine's accusers and the former coach's wife. details ahead. we're america's natural gas
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tonight the child sex abuse scandal shaken penn state university brought former students and school leaders together at a town hall forum held on campus, a chance to talk candidly, ask questions. earlier the first lawsuit was filed against former defensive football coach jerry sandusky, charges with sexually abusing eight boys, charges he denies. penn state's named in the lawsuit along with the charity sandusky founded for unundder privileged kids. the suit founded by john doe. this man is a new accuse, not mentioned in the grand jury report. his attorneys claim sandusky sexually abused their client
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more than 100 times and threatened to harm him and his family if he told anyone. as for sandusky, his attorney says he's working with a private investigator prove his innocence. in an interview today with cnn contributor, he's talked to one of the alleged victims described in the graphic grand jury report that led to sandusky's arrest. listen. >> what i'm saying is that the young man was in my office several weeks ago following the initiation of the charges against jerry and he sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim, that he was the young man he believed in the shower the night that mcqueary said he went in and saw jerry engaging in some sexual act. the young man said he was the boy in the show, as far as he knew, but he was not involved in any sexual acts with jerry. >> sarah joins me now. there is a new lawsuit filed from the victim, not part of the grand jury. what have you learned about the
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victim, the lawsuits? >> what we know is he's about 29 years old. he's coming forward alleging that he was sexually abused by jerry sandusky more than 100 times but not one of those eight victims outlined in the grand jury presentment. what we believe from the attorney general's office ongoing investigation that is he might be talking to police at this point but so far, he is not -- he is not one of the eight victim with charges against jerry sandusky, only the civil suit is being brought forward. >> has the second mile group responded to the lawsuit? >> the second mile did respond and they're saying only that they're going to respond appropriately to any lawsuit, any litigation brought against them and their thoughts remain with the victims and families but they're not specifically responding to the claims in that lawsuit which are that they should have known that they should have done something and the same thing with penn state, that penn state being jerry
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sandusky's employer should have done something to prevent him from having alone time with children. >> i want to play more of your interview with jerry sandusky's attorney today, the attorney claims that the alleged victim told him nothing sexual happened. let's watch. >> he said he had turned all of the shower faucets on, as you know, they're big showers in penn state football complex. he turned all of the shower heads on, water was running on the floor, he was surf, he'd run from one end to the other and slide across the shower floor, and he said nothing sexual occurred. >> i mean, this is obviously in complete contradiction to what the coach mcqueary, who was then a graduate assistant, says he saw and has testified to seeing. what is the attorney say the victim told the attorney about what coach mcqueary testified he saw? >> contrary to the grant jury
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presentment, coach mcqueary was seen by sandusky and the boy, according to joanne man dole la, the man who says he's victim, too, say his didn't know there was a witness to anything going on in that shower at the time, but two days later, something happened that made that instance memorable, and that was na jerry sandusky called him up and said, listen, penn state officials say that somebody felt uncomfortable about what was going on in that shower, you know, two days ago, and i gave them your name, i gave them your number, and they might be calling to ask you if something happened, just tell them what happened, and you know from the grand jury presentment, we know that it's been alleged that no one from penn state ever reached out to that child. so it's very interesting that joe is saying that penn state officials did know who that boy was, they knew his i didn't and didn't contact him. >> thanks very much. want to bring in our legal panel, mark geragos, jeffrey
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toobin. mark, i want to play another clip from the interview sarah did with sandusky's attorney. take a look. >> what is the point where you say, maybe we should talk about a plea deal? are you already having those conversations with the a.g.'s office? >> new yoo we haven't. as a matter of fact, from your experience, people who maintain their innocence plead guilty because the overwhelming evidence against them and many people who had gone to trial were convicted 0 of serious crimes and executed and it later turned out they were innocence. there's a lot of reasons why people decide to do certain things. but at this point, jerry's maintained his innocence in regard to allegations he knows about. >> what do you make of that answer? does it sound like they're considering a plea deal and he's setting the table for that or was he hypothetically talking. >> sounds like the door's open. i don't know how else to put it. it's a true statement, people all the time take plea deals because it's in their best interests.
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there's a u.s. supreme court case that right on point, california case that's right on point that you can take a plea deal and, yes, it's true, people go to trial, get convicted unjustly. there's discussion about whether or not people have been executed because of that. all of that is accurate. why do you put that out there? it sounds to me like you're telegraphing the fact that the door's open and there's some communication going on. >> jeff, do you agree with that? >> i agree, though it's important to remember, we're early in this process. >> right. >> there's an investigation that's very much ongoing. when you have a big case like this, the first indictment is almost always superseded by further indictments that are either broader, as usually the case, or narrower. i just think it's premature at this point. >> what the attorney is saying is true about what the alleged victim told him or told sandusky or is willing to say to authorities, it completely contradicts what is in a grand
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jury report what mcqueary told the grand jury. >> it's possible there's contradictory testimony. this is what trial prep is all about, learn what witnesses say and see how strong your case is. it's only that that point you decide whether a plea is really the right thing to do after you looked at the evidence. >> mark, the lawsuit by this new victim who -- alleged victim who has come forward names the university everybody also sandusky, also the charity. how does that work? would they all face trial together? how would -- would they merge some sort of their defense? in a civil suit? >> it's interesting how those are usually handled. if somebody is named as a defendant, and here you've got three defendants, and one of them is facing criminal prosecution or investigation, they can move to have the civil suit stayed, which means, hey, judge, we don't want to go forward with this in right now, put it aside until we finish with the criminal, that -- whether the judge does that for
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one defendant, all defendants, or whether the judge says, no, you can have what's called third party discovery, meaning they can take the deposition of mcqueary, that's really up in the air. judges craft that all the time. and it's actually a very common issue, any time you have these kinds of investigations where you're got the civil lawsuits getting in the middle of there. in this case, so many agencies investigating or at least kind of like moths to a flame here, to throw civil lawsuits into it as well really kind of mucks up the whole thing. >> mark, is there -- is there a statute of limitations in a civil case like this? >> sure. >> yes, there absolutely is a statute of limitations and i'll tell you the criminal case, i think, is going to have to deal with the statute of limitations issues though it's more expansive or read more expansively though the u.s. supreme court weighed in on the california statute that as politic ability nationally that you can't revive a case after the fact if it's already -- if
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the statute's already run and the crime can't be prosecuted. >> pennsylvania changed its law in 2002 to expand the statute of limitations for minors until they are 30 years old. john doe was 29. did you notice that? it's very significant that he's 29, because by filing it nowing he gets in under the statute of limitations. if he waited a few months longer, he might now. >> the other interesting thing the attorney's saying four of the alleged victim outlined in the report have had in recent year what he described as congenial relationships with sandusky even going to his home visiting his wife. >> that may be significant. it may be evidence that no abuse took place. there's also a pattern in sexual abuse cases of people having continuing relationships. these are very weird and unfortunate and difficult relationships. but that alone doesn't prove sexual abuse did not take place. >> mark geragos, jeff toobin, thanks very much. new developments in the
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syracuse sex abuse case. learning more about the recorded phone call between bernie fine's wife, one of his accusers and the role a local newspaper played in setting that up. we'll be right back. there's a moment where everything comes together. where there's magic. and you now understand what nature's been hiding. ♪ at dow we understand the difference between innovation and invention. invention is important. it's the beginning. it's the spark. but innovation is where we actually create value for dow, for society, and for the world. ♪ at dow, we're constantly searching for how to use our fundamental knowledge of chemistry to solve these difficult problems. science is definitive. there is a right answer out there. [ male announcer ] the same 117 elements do the fundamental work of chemistry. ♪ the difference, the one element that is the catalyst for innovation,
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will be giving away passafree copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to >> "crime and punishment," like penn state, seyracuse universit dealing with a sex abuse scandal, allegations against bernie fine who was fired on sunday, after a third accuser came forward and espn and a
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local newspaper reported on a tapes conversation between fine's wife and his first accuser. fine has not been charged with any crimes and he emphatically maintains he's innocent. in a "360" exclusive interview with gary tuchman, his second accuser, mike lang, describe in detail last night on camera what he says fine did to him when he was just a teenager. >> when did you realize that there was something wrong with what he was doing? what did he do to you? >> he touched -- kept touching me. >> where? where did he touch you? >> in my leg and ply penis. >> did you say something to him? >> yes, esaid, bernie, please stop this, i'm not that kind. if you don't want plea to come over here, i won't come over here. if you keep doing it, i'm not going to come over here. >> lang was sickened when he heard about the penn state ac ackizati ackizations. lang thinks jim boeheim should keep his job. boeheim defended standing up for
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his former assistant when accusations first came out. >> i supported a friend, that's what i thought i did. i'm proud that i did. >> mike lang's stepbrother, bobby davis, the first accuser to come forward to police in 2002, refused to investigate because of the statute of limitations expired. davis is the one who tapes the phone conversation with fine's wife laurie. here's some of that. >> right, right, he just has a nasty attitude, because he didn't get his money, nor did he get what he wanted he didn't get dpsh. >> it's not about the money. >> it's about the [ bleep ]. i know that. so you're -- i'm just telling you for your own good, you're better off just staying away from him. >> the post standard had a hand in getting it made. gary tuchman joins me now. what do we know? >> reporter: anderson, we know a lot more about the secret audiotape of bernie fine's wife, laurie. the local newspaper here in syracuse is telling us tonight
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it knew in advance accuser bobby davis was going to secretly record the conversation. does that mean it was the newspaper's idea? we can't tell you that. the seryracuse post standard is not commenting to us on the record. what they are saying is a printed statement, after the discussions with our report somewhere our knowledge, bobby davis secretly recorded a phone conversation with laurie fine on october 8, 2002. our understanding is that it was legal under the laws of utah and new york for someone in one of the states to report a phone conversation with someone in the other state without informing the second party. sounds like the paper was giving a little legal advice about placing the call. at this point, the newspaper is telling us that it would have done a story if it could have supported laurie davis saying this incident happened but they did not hear it directly from laurie davis, therefore they waited to see what was on the phone call and ended up not doing the story. >> if the paper was seemingly involved in the recording the phone call, giving advice about
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it did they say why they didn't publish the story after the tape clearly raises a lot of eyebrows or questions? >> reporter: yeah, well after listening to the tape, the paper decided it was too vague and ambiguous and wasn't good enough to support the story so the paper kept the tape quiet for over nine years. the police and district attorney knew nothing about the tape after all of these years. there were several passages that did not seem ambiguous, including this passage. >> what did he want you to do, you can be honest with me. >> he what do you think? what he always does. >> but you never had any oral sex with him? >> no. >> no. >> i hi he would want to but -- >> of course he would. why wouldn't? >> reporter: the newspaper stresses that espn made the decision not to release the tape, also, and that's true. why didn't either organization talk to authorities about the
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tape? the paper stresses police didn't take the investigation seriously in 2002 and did not feel comfortable handing over to police materials. there are a lot of questions we have for the newspaper that got the tape before anyone else. once again they made the decision not to talk to us about that. >> whatever happened to the statement we were expecting from laurie fine about the audiotape? >> reporter: well, that's very interesting. two days ago we heard from the nephew of laurie fine that she was going to make a written statement that that audio statement was misinterpreted. we went to her door and asked her personally if she had a statement to make. it was like 30 seconds. what was notable about the conversation is that she did not say anything about any statement that she wasn't going to make it. back to you. >> something completely different next. last night we told you about the guy who makes the home made eat move kale t-shirts.
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time for the ridiculist. i have to add myself because of something i said on last night's ridiculist. we told you about how the multibillion dollar fast food chain chick-fil-a is going after a guy in vermont selling hand printed t eed t-shirts he makes
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garage, eat more kale. chick-fil-a thinks it's similar to eat more chicken and it will confuse customer which led to this from last night's ridiculist. for the record, this is a chick-fil-a chicken sandwich and this is kale. now i don't know, you can make the call. i don't know what kale is, frankly. >> all right. so we got a ton of comments on facebook, twitter about this, people can't seem to believe that i don't know what kale is, they're shocked, they're shocked, outraged, i tell you. they use a lot of question marks and exclamation points. "360" staff went to great lengths, one person ran down to whole foods in the building, now i know this is kale. it's green. it's leafy. supposed to be really good for you. and that means i'm not going to like it, as i have a palate similar to a 4-year-old child. need i remind of you of what happened when i tried spinach on my talk show "anderson".
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i'll try -- well, spinach, all right. all right. >> wow. >> you need a sip? >> that's gross. >> it's like slithery. what is on that? in in my defense, i'm not the only one not adventurous to eating leafy greens. selena gomez, justin bieber's main squeeze. look what happened when ryan seacrest got her to try kale in some juice drink that he likes. >> this is collard greens, kale, broccoli, coconut water, green tea. >> no it's not. >> want some? >> i'm scared.
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oh my gosh. >> do you want water? >> do you like it? >> she has it. why do you do that to yourself? >> so it's me, someone named selena gomez. another kale clip. >> kale chip. >> ew. >> isn't it good? >> no. >> don't treat me like a dog eating kale chips. a don't know what that is. >> so to me, selena gomez, kim kardashian. you think the kardashians would be all about the kale, it's one of the few foods that start with "k." this is a kale chip. i'm going to try a kale chip. so, they say it's good to try new things and now i can say for sure, kale is definitely a


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